הכרובים במשכן לעומת הכרובים במקדש

The following comment relates to 1 Melachim 6,23-27, and 8,6-7, from
where it is clear that in the mikdash of Shlomo, the keruvim were set
on the floor, and the aron (with the kapporet) was placed underneath
it, rather than having the keruvim as one piece coming out of the
kapporet. The implication of the comment is that there is no real
connection between the keruvim and the aron at all.

From: Simon Schneebalg
Subject: Parshat Terumah

I once heard from Rav Goren the reason why the keruvin were only part of
the kaporet in the mishkan, but not in the bet hamikdash, where they were
free standing. He said that the keruvim had to be part of the kaporet
because the God spoke to Moshe "miben shnei hakeruvin" from which the
gemara derives that the shkhina never went below ten tefachim. (Sucah
5a). Thus, the keruvim had to be on the kaporet only in the mishkan,
where the keruvim had to be at least ten tefachim high, but not in the bet
hamikdash.
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Even if this is correct, there is still an obvious connection between the
keruvim, whose purpose is to hover over the aron, and the aron itself. It
is true however, that in the mikdash, they were not one piece (not
"miksha").
There is another possibility here. The aron itself, with the kapporet, is
the seat of God, as was explained in the shiur. In the mikdash, the
keruvim wings hovered OVER the seat. In the mishkan, there was an
additional purpose, to be the source of the voice of God, as is indicated
in the verse you quote. (The keruvim symbolize the connection between God
and Israel - e.g.; in the aggada about which way their faces face,
depending on the state of the Jews). Hence, the keruvim are attached to
the kisei hakavod, so that God speaks from the throne. In the mikdash,
prophecy is "in Israel" and not in the mikdash per se (this basically
takes place with the career of Shmuel, who hears God's voice as a child
from within the mishkan,and then goes on to become a navi, independent of
the mishkan). Hence, the keruvim are detached (and enlarged), to hover
not only the kapporet, but over the entire aron.

Ezra Bick

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From: "David Neustadter"
Subject: aron and kaporet

I very much enjoyed your Parsha shiur this week. Once you say it and
reread the pesukim it's obvious; those are the best kind!

I just wanted to point out another support for your idea that the Aron
and the Kaporet are really separate though interdependant kelim.
Later in the parsha, in the section describing the Parochet, the Torah
lists the placement within the mishkan of each of the kelim. Here it says
"venatata et hakaporet al aron haedut bekodesh hakadashim". If the
kaporet were just a part of the aron, then there is no purpose for its
being mentioned in this context. The implication here is that it is a
separate kli whose proper placement is on top of the aron.

David Neustadter